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Wishlist - Market Cap
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Mustard View Drop Down
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Posts: 16 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Mustard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Wishlist - Market Cap
    Posted: 13 Apr 2005 at 9:19am
Nice work Peter. If you promote this point in your advertisements you are bound to get more customers.
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Peter View Drop Down
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Posts: 241 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Peter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Apr 2005 at 3:52pm
I've extended the security summary report to list all securities (types 1-45) for a company at the bottom of the report. This does a total calculation for shares issued.

It also calculates market cap for each security, however many show zero because they have not traded themselves. I'm interested in your feedback on this one as I my knowledge of these types of securities is limited.
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Posts: 241 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Peter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Apr 2005 at 3:08pm
Hi,

Yes, your observations are valid, however it in part stems from an understanding of what the BullCharts (and WebLink) reports represent.

First some background on where this data comes from. This data is sourced direct from the ASX, specifically from a data service they call Signal E. This is the source that many data providers use for fundamentals because it's what the ASX provides directly.

Probably the most important thing to note is that all of the reports in BullCharts and WebLink are per security. More precisely, they are per ASX code. The ASX publishes data for the restricted shares under a separate ASX code, therefore we report them under those codes.

For the case of AII, this is the information currently being sent from the ASX on Signal E, and this is what appears in the WebLink and BullCharts reports:
 Symbol  Type        Total Issue
 ------  ----------  -----------
 AII     ORDINARY     38,350,004
 AIIAI   RESTRICTED    1,200,000
 AIIAK   RESTRICTED    1,770,000
 AIIAM   RESTRICTED   2,4680,000
 Total         ; ;        6,6000,004

So in this sense, the BullCharts & WebLink reports are all correct.

However, what you're looking for is actually information for the company as a whole rather than just for the individual security. Reasonable enough. I'll have a think about the best way we add a report that represents this type of information to make the reports more useful for you (most likely an extension to the security summary).

The main reason we've avoided this area in the past is that some companies have a large number of securities (esp those with derivatives) and it's been a fiddly task working out what (not) to include.

ps. I've moved this conversation into its own topic to organise things a bit better.


Edited by Peter
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Mustard View Drop Down
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Posts: 16 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Mustard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Apr 2005 at 12:20pm

Cobra

In "Details of the Offer" on page 8 it states that all the new shares will rank equally in all respects with existing shares on issue so I don't know if they are in escrow or not. Maybe I have missed any reference to escrowed shares. Anyway it seems we agree there are bucket loads more on issue than BC says. The ASX should be aware of what is on issue as it is advertised in all of their announcements. In the recent conference presentation it makes no reference to escrowed numbers ????

I have always taken the market cap listed with BC and IRESS with a grain of salt but it just goes to show how distorted the facts can be. In this case it's hardly a guide but is way out. I can think of a few other stocks that also have distorted caps and there are bound to be hundreds more. The question then begs can we demand a better service from our fees?

Imagine if Bullcharts advertised accurate numbers of shares on issue showing restricted and escrowed numbers with dates, alongside those listed as tradeable. Now that would have to be a marketing edge. What are your thoughts Bullcharts staff ? Who and where does the problem lie with and can it be fixed?

Mustard
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Posts: 76 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Cobra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2005 at 8:58am
Mustard,
Yes, good point. The 'missing' shares are in escrow. I can only assume the ASX gives the OK for this set-up, or it's a mistake on the companies part, as it does distort the market cap severely. Or maybe the ASX only takes into account tradable shares???. Surely you can't be expected to go looking through all market notices to get the true total shares on issue.
Cobra
BullCharts version:3.4.1.28129
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Mustard View Drop Down
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Posts: 16 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Mustard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2005 at 8:20pm

Originally posted by Cobra

Mustard,
I'm not sure it is wrong. My data (Iress) confirms Bullcharts data is correct.

Hi Cobra

I agree with you, IRESS and BC both have the same number on issue for AII i.e. 38,350,004 but my point is we pay very good money for supposedly reliable data but when it comes to a stock's market capitalisation then it cannot be taken seriously. To work out a company's market cap you must take into account all shares on issue i.e restricted, escrowed etc.

I think in this day and age its not too unreasonable to expect something as critical as total number of shares on issue to be correct or at least close. BC probably gets this data from another provider as do IRESS but somewhere down the line someone is not doing their job properly.

This extract from page 11 of Abra's prospectus shows the correct number but it seems the data that is provided to us shows only tradeable in this case. Does anyone from Weblink wish to comment on this ?

Mustard



Edited by Mustard
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Cobra View Drop Down
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Posts: 76 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Cobra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2005 at 12:45pm
Mustard,
I'm not sure it is wrong. My data (Iress) confirms Bullcharts data is correct.
BullCharts version:3.4.1.28129
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Posts: 16 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Mustard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2005 at 11:00am

How is the ability to set alerts from a chart coming along Peter?

Also I note that in a number of stocks market capitalisations are distorted when using security summary.

Take for example new listing AII- Abra Mining. BC summary says it has a market cap of $12.4m but this based on 38.3 million tradeable shares. There is in fact 66 million(from prospectus) on issue so this almost doubles the market that BC shows. So what's the use of having a market summary if it's that far wrong?

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